Lori Rice on ageism and generational perspectives

00:01

Welcome back to In Conversation With, Season 4, Episode 2. And with me is Lori. Lori, how are you?

I’m good.

Good. How are you?

Excellent.

I’m not bad. I’m feeling a little old. The government sent me my pension papers, so in a way that’s kind of a good thing, but in a way I’m feeling old. But we’ve known each other… [unclear].

I have 46 weeks. That’s all I can say.

Oh, that’s okay. Now I get the 46 weeks.

Forty-six weeks.

Yeah. So we’ve known each other for a couple of weeks at least, I think.

Yeah. Four or five.

Four or five. Okay. So you had a great idea for a podcast, and I was actually quite happy that you were going to do it. I was going to say surprised. I’m going to say quite happy that you wanted to do this. I’m glad. Thank you very much for doing this.

Yeah, I think it’s really important.

You’re also one of the admins of the Mental Health Radio Facebook page. I thank you for that as well.

Yep. I like being in there and seeing everybody’s take on their mental health.

01:14

That’s good. That is the reason why I started this project, and I’m so glad you guys all came on board with this. We’ve suffered. I shouldn’t include you in it, but I know for sure I have been suffering with mental health issues pretty much coming out of the womb. It’s definitely something we need to talk about. It doesn’t always get cured just by listening to some therapist doing a virtual session and reading from the book of Freud. I call it fraud, but it’s actually Freud. It’s just me, you know. I’m just a little bit younger than you, by a day or two, for sure.

The mental health thing is definitely a journey. I think we discover all kinds of things on our journeys. How we do it and why we do it changes about every five to 10 years, at least it does for me. The definition of mental health and the coverage from the government changes every five or so years, too.

Yeah. One week. Look at what’s happening to everybody who’s on AISH nowadays. It’s ridiculous. Your basic idea was to talk about the breakdown of generational perspectives and the key generational groups. In my experience, I have the most experience with a couple or three of the generations. My older siblings, you included, happen to be in the generation they consider Baby Boomers. There’s been a lot of talk lately. The younger kids call us all boomers, all of us who are any age over 30. There have been a lot of memes and social media posts focusing on these generational groups.

I’m not a Baby Boomer, because I fit into what they call Generation X. If we’re going to use these labels, we need information on why Boomers are the way they are, why Gen X is the way it is, and why millennials are the way they are. I skipped a generation when I had my kids. They’re Gen Z, however you want to say that in Canada.

03:46

Baby Boomers are known for their work ethic, coming out of World War II and out of the ’70s war. Sorry, it’s not coming to me. Vietnam, right? They’re known mostly for their work ethic, loyalty and preference for traditional structure, mostly conservative in life. That’s how they were raised by the generation before them, to have a conservative life structure. They grew up watching things like Gunsmoke, MASH, World War II movies, anything directly related to war. Their perspective on things is a little different.

Being the next generation, Gen X, it’s a very fine line. I feel a little attached, obviously, to my siblings who are Baby Boomers. Gen X was a little different, with more flexibility and more freedom and independence. We grew up with a little more technology than our counterparts before us. We were known as latchkey kids. We grew up watching political instability in the ’80s and crumbling world views, things that were meant to change. We were going through all of that. Music and comedy were completely different.

You and I have talked about comedy and the things we thought were funny. My kids roll over and say, ‘Oh, you can’t say things like that.’ There’s such a difference in the way we look at things. It’s shaped how we feel and how open we are to discussing these kinds of things.

05:37

Millennials, again, I don’t have a lot of experience with, but I’ve worked with people who are millennials. They want more work-life balance. They don’t tend to be workaholics like maybe the generations before them. They want meaning in their work. They don’t just want to go to a nine-to-five. They want to feel like they’re part of something, to be recognized for their hard work. We didn’t get those kinds of things either, and they prioritize their experiences.

Gen Z, my kids’ generation, are big on security, independence and entrepreneurial thinking. They all want to have their own business. My son is the same. He wants to work for himself. They have a strong focus on technology, and social issues are huge to them. Every little thing that happens impacts everything they do. Those are four key generations for me that are different.

There are factors shaping generational perspectives, too. Historical events, major events like wars, economic downturns and social movements, where now it’s okay to protest certain things when it wasn’t okay before, can significantly influence a generation’s values and beliefs. Technological advancements are huge and still happening. The newest generation, Alpha, will be way smarter than my Gen Z kids. Changes affect communication styles, work habits and overall attitudes towards life. It’s a completely different ball game.

Social and cultural shifts, changing norms and values within society, also shape generational perspectives. Parenting styles are huge. We know what our parents were like growing up. They were pretty hardcore, right? Now, if I even raise my voice an octave, they say, ‘Oh, you’re yelling at me. You’re abusive.’ They’re so much more… Parenting approaches can lead to all kinds of issues for the kids, right?

07:52

They want their independence way more than we did. We didn’t just get independent, we just left. Kids are sticking around home, but they’re living their own lives within the family dynamic more than we did. Their social attitudes are completely different from ours growing up.

What about the implications of generational differences? That should be a big factor as well.

It’s a big one, especially in the workplace for those of us who are headed a bit out the door. You’re 46 weeks.

Yeah, and happy to be doing so.

It’s about time. We wish we could have done it, or you probably wish you could have done it 10 years earlier.

Right. I’m already there, and I’m a bit younger than you. I find the workplace dynamic is such a different structure than it used to be. We need to understand the differences. That’s crucial to being effective in workplaces, for good communication and collaborating with people who are younger, so they can understand where we come from and vice versa. Leadership and diversity are huge for them. We’re finding that as we’re going out the door, they’re coming in strong, so we have to accept those things.

09:15

Interpersonal relationships, recognizing generational values, can improve our communication and understanding within families, social situations and even romantic relationships. It can be a huge factor. I currently live with a Boomer, so we have some of that difference. He’s a little older than I am. We view things similarly, but not quite the same.

Political and social issues, of course. Generational perspectives can influence everything we think about politics and social movements. The teacher strike is the newest example. Having a child graduating this year, it was a huge impact for me, and I didn’t understand it at all. She was fine: ‘Woohoo, no big deal. I got three weeks off.’ The pressure is going to come later when she has to write her exams.

Broader societal discussion matters, so we need to talk about these things without saying, ‘You’re a Boomer, you don’t understand,’ or ‘You’re Gen Z, so you can’t understand where we’re coming from.’ People are quick to pile on these generational terms without actually knowing what they’re saying. How do we bridge the generational gap? In all honesty, there isn’t one specific answer. What do you think?

10:52

Communication needs to be more open. We need to encourage open dialogue and share experiences, and then we can foster understanding across generations. It’s easier to say, ‘Your generation did this,’ or ask why someone feels that way. We need empathy. I do have some empathy for my kids. They think they have it rough, and they’re being honest. They say, ‘This is hard.’ I say, ‘Yes, it’s hard.’ I try not to say things like, ‘Well, you should have seen how hard it was for me,’ because that invalidates how they feel, and it’s not going to open communication.

We need some empathy and active listening, to be able to hear their point of view. We don’t have to agree completely, but we need to listen actively and recognize the strengths and experience each generation brings. Some of us were unhappy with the way our parents did things, but they were trailblazers in other aspects. Personally, maybe they weren’t the best parents, but their generation were trailblazers that let us do the things we do today.

If individuals and communities understand some of the factors that shape our perspectives, they can better navigate the complexities of a diverse world, work together and create a more inclusive and harmonious environment. That would be the hope.

Now comes the tough one, I think. How do generational perspectives affect mental health and statistics?

12:38

Stats are huge. The increased openness and self-reporting is more common in the younger generations, particularly Gen Z. They’re more likely to openly discuss their mental health issues and seek the help they need, and that leads to higher reported rates of mental health issues. The more they talk about it and get help, the more we hear about it. There are more and more diagnoses coming, and I’m sure there’ll be more to come.

Even when I was a teenager, we just accepted that somebody might have been a little… ‘Special.’

Special, yeah.

They just couldn’t focus, weren’t able to sit in their seats, were at the principal’s office all the time. It wasn’t called anything in particular. It was just, ‘He’s a little hyper. He’s got a few issues.’ Sorry, [unclear] is having a little meltdown here.

A person’s stage of life and life experience have a factor, too. What stage of life you’re in sets the tone. Historical trauma and generational trauma are a big deal in whether you’re going to talk about your issues, whether you even know they’re issues, or whether you’ve accepted that this is just the way your life is.

Some older generations accept the way their life is and don’t talk about it. They don’t want to get involved in big discussions about how they feel. They just suck it up and move along. That might work for a while, but if they talked about it more, maybe younger generations would sit up and take notice.

14:37

Generations have different expectations and attitudes regarding mental health. Older generations might view mental health issues as a sign of weakness, which wasn’t talked about much when we were younger either. It was like, ‘Dry those tears and get to school.’ It was just, ‘Hurry up and get on with your life.’ ‘Suck it up, buttercup.’ ‘Keep moving forward.’ ‘Keep on keeping on.’ All those phrases we use, and some people still use today. I don’t know if they’re helpful. They might be helpful for some, but they’re not helpful to everyone.

Gen Z and millennials are more likely to use online mental health platforms, whereas older generations aren’t so into getting online and talking to a stranger about how they feel about their life. The influence of social media and technology, exposure to social media and online trends, and digital communication can significantly impact people’s mental health. It’s all at our fingertips, but it can also be dangerous. The kids now can’t function without it, which I feel is a bit of a danger to their mental health. They think it’s great, but I don’t know. Being from another generation, I don’t know.

15:57

They call it Google smart sometimes, because there are so many diagnoses you can get. It’s kind of like when Wikipedia was a big thing back in my day, before the internet. Wiki was the main thing, but then they found out you could edit Wikipedia. Then it became, ‘Oh.’ Now Google’s that way, too, to a certain degree, and they’re taking over.

Yeah. We need to trust our instincts a little more. I’m not so keen on all the labels. I personally don’t like some of the labels I’ve been given. I don’t know that I want to live my life by a label. I want to be able to say, ‘Yeah, maybe that’s a symptom, or a dysfunction in my brain, or whatever the case may be.’ In my opinion, that’s not important. What’s important is that I find a way to cope with it, and you find a way to talk about it to a degree with somebody we feel safe talking to.

The labels don’t matter so much to me. My daughter has diagnosed herself with three different things from TikTok, and I think that’s dangerous. I think what they’re doing is dangerous, and it’s not helpful for them to do that for themselves.

Any other important considerations?

17:31

It’s crucial to avoid making broad generalizations about an entire generation. We’re all a little bit of every generation, I feel. We’re a little bit of every generation before us. Now I’m a little bit Gen Z because I understand that my kids are that generation, and I’m their mom, so there’s some bridging the gap there.

Individual experiences and perspectives within each generation can vary, obviously, but we should understand and validate all of them. That’s what we need to do for everyone, not just people who have mental health struggles. Let’s be honest, we all have mental health struggles at some time, in some way, in some form, to some degree. That doesn’t matter because we don’t want to sit and compare, either.

It depends on your generation, right? You may think yours is harder, but millennials had it way harder than you did, that kind of thing.

Exactly. Sitting around comparing them doesn’t bridge the gap. It just makes it bigger, because we’re all saying our generation had it the hardest. I’m sure the generations before us think the same. We need to promote understanding and open communication. Social status has a lot to do with it. With all the different sexual orientations and things like that, people want to be understood, accepted and validated. That’s all they’re really wanting at the end of the day, and it doesn’t hurt us to do that. Being a good human is a good idea.

19:20

Understanding across generations can create a more supportive and empathetic environment for mental well-being. I think that would have a big impact on different generations if we could all sit down and just think, ‘Yeah, you know, it’s kind of hard, and it’ll kick you in the ass every now and then.’ It’s kicked us all in the ass. Like I said, every 10 years or so we all go through some kind of major change. If we’re mentally okay, sometimes we can deal with that. If we’re not mentally okay, it makes it so much harder, and we can’t reach out and support each other.

That’s a good deal.

Address stigma, promote help-seeking behaviours, and be able to say it’s okay not to be okay. Efforts to reduce the stigma around mental health encourage help-seeking among older generations who may be less likely to admit their struggles. It’s not even about saying, ‘Oh, you look like you’re struggling.’ It’s just, ‘Hey, how are things?’ Even something that simple can let them say, ‘Things are really crappy right now.’ You can say, ‘Yeah, they are for me too. What are you dealing with?’ Those simple questions are huge. There’s the shame factor of admitting something is wrong with you. Nobody has to say anything is wrong with them. We’re all human, doing the human experience.

20:51

Wonderful. The similarities we all have are that we’re all human, wearing our meat suits, as I heard. Waiting for the next… Whether we like our [unclear] or not, I guess.

Yeah.

We better just keep on keeping on. You can only do what you do. This is great. I’m glad you decided to do this. I’m very proud of you. Thank you very much. You did a very good job.

I’d also like to thank you for coming on today. You did use it, so I have to use it again: November 13, ‘It’s Okay to Not Be Okay.’ That’s our big Q&A that we have. Let’s have everybody remember that as well. That starts at 7 p.m. Mountain Standard Time. Thank you, Lori, once again, for doing this. You did an awesome job. That is it. That is In Conversation With, Season 4, Episode 2. Thanks for coming, everybody, and have a happy mental health… [Recording ends mid-sentence.]